Erik + Emily Orton (00:01.734)
There are a lot of problems in the world. And one of the things that causes the most suffering is worry. Worry. Just this low -grade constant worry that we experience. And so today, we are going to talk about worry and the fact that we believe that it's optional. How to overcome it. Yeah.
Welcome to the What Could Go Right podcast. My name is Emily Orton. I am Erik Orton. And on this podcast, we talk about personal growth and family connections and parenting adult kids, just how to thrive as a person, a partner and a parent. And it is hard to thrive when we are worrying. True story. So we wanted to talk a little bit about that.
All right, should I dive in? Should I dive Yeah. Okay. I remember one of the most worrisome moments in my life, like periods of time, was when I had quit my job on a very successful Broadway show. I was working on Wicked and I had rolled the dice. That's what I'm trying to say. I had rolled the dice on producing my own show and was not sure if it was gonna work.
did not even have the money raised yet entirely and we were just sort of barreling towards opening night. And I was stressed out to the max. I felt like everything was on the line financially, my professional reputation, just trying to take care of my family. And I discovered a book that helped me so much. I loved it and it helped me so much that I gave it to my producing partner as an opening night gift. And I'm sure she's like, what?
And the book is called How to Stop Worrying and Start Living. And it's written by Dale Carnegie who wrote How to Win Friends and Influence People. Is that right? I think so. Yeah. How to Win Friends and Influence People. So everyone seems to know how to win friends and influence people. But I found this book by accident because I had that book and this was like...
Erik + Emily Orton (02:21.638)
A double edition, like a double feature. And the next section of the book was how to stop worrying and start living. And I just found so much relief from that book. I recommend it to our coaching clients and I have recommended it to all of our kids and I reread it every so often. He has recommended it to me many times. He recommended it many times before I actually read it. I was going to ask, have you actually ever read it?
I think I've read it. Well, I think what happens is I get in and I start reading like, oh, this is so helpful. And I just immediately start employing the strategies and I find the ones that work for me. He's just like coming at it from every different angle. It's so thorough. It's so good. We have thought about writing a book called How to Stop Living and Start Worrying. And we can just tell you all of the ways that you can, instead of being present in the moment, you can pile on.
All your fears about the multiple ways things might play out for ill in the future. And if this one little pebble starts heading downhill and creates an avalanche and brings doom and destruction to your life 10 years in the future. How to stop living and start worrying. If you'd like to pre -order a copy, just DM us, send us a comment and we'll get you on the wait list for that blockbuster book.
That would be so funny. Sometimes it's really helpful to recognize like, oh, I could spend all of my time worrying. Now, I was, when I was a little girl, my grandmother used to worry so much. She had seven children and when she worried, she would, she would scratch her head. That was kind of like how she managed her worry. And so when I was a little girl, she paid me to put like,
rubbing alcohol on a Q -tip and dab it on all the little spots on her head. I don't know, it doesn't seem gross to me because it's a woman that I love and that I have a close relationship with and I'm just like taking care of her. But anyway, the point is from a very young age, I recognize that this mental loop of worry where we can't actually take any action to affect.
Erik + Emily Orton (04:43.91)
change in the outcomes, it's just literally spinning on itself, would manifest in the body, right? Like it came out and would create this worry long before that book, The Body Keeps Score. And I'm not talking about clinical depression or anxiety where you need to see a professional counselor, but just this we're all human and we worry and we doubt and we fear. So anyway.
Um, Eric wants me to put my headphones on. Now we match. Anyway, so I just recognize that about worry and I inherited it. I became quite a worrier and I, you know. A worrier warrior. I don't know if I'll call it a warrior because it doesn't help anything, but I was really, really good at worrying. And what I noticed about it is one, that it never helped.
a situation. It wasn't a productive thought process. And second, that it made me feel very important and very self -centered. Like I need to focus on the things that I'm worried about. Even if I'm worried about other people, like I'm worried that my child's not sleeping or I'm worried this, that, or the other, it was about my worries. And so everything about worry just made my world smaller and smaller and made me like,
bigger and bigger in it, you know? And I was like, oh, this is so weird to realize. This makes me feel like I'm busy. This makes me feel like I'm important. This makes me feel like I'm being productive, which is a huge lie because I'm not actually being productive. It's very different than just being aware and making decisions. Like, can I affect this outcome? Can I not affect this outcome? And so anyway, I have a long history with worry.
We would like to share five ideas on how you can overcome worry. Shall we dive in? Yeah, some things that have been really effective for us. You'll have to figure out something else to think about and something else to do with your time when you stop worrying so much. And some of these, I'm sure I'm just stealing from Dale Carnegie. So, you know, compare this with the book and you'll know what's his. But these are things that I have done, we have done in our lives to consciously...
Erik + Emily Orton (07:12.55)
push back worry and kind of take away its power. One that I have started to do most recently is naming it. And this happens when I'm in a place where I'm just, oftentimes I'm kind of waking up in the morning and I can already tell that my brain is just locked in on things that are gonna go wrong and I don't.
or problems where I don't have solutions and my mind is just churning and churning and churning. And I've gotten into the habit of recognizing that situation and I literally say out loud, I am worrying. I say it to myself and I'll usually say it a lot of times. I'll say, I'm worrying, I'm worrying, I am worrying. And I say it five, 10 times just to really get it into myself that.
this is what I'm actually doing, I am worrying. And then I get to decide what I'm gonna do about it, but I just name it. Because sometimes it's just what we wanna do, what I wanna do. And sometimes I'm like, you know what, I know that worry is not productive, I know that it doesn't help the situation, and if that's what I'm doing, then maybe I want to stop. But by naming it, it gives me a little bit of a break from the actual thought and saying, is this a productive behavior, do I wanna keep continuing with this?
And I get to decide, but I find that for me, number one, naming it helps. Well, I would say before you even name it is the pre -number one, which is that you're aware. Okay. Yeah. It's not like the thought train left the station and you had no idea where it was going. You're just along for the ride. You say, okay, I recognize that I'm worrying and now I'm going to say it out loud. I'm going to label it by what it is. I'm not problem solving right now. I'm just worrying.
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So that's number one. Name it. Second is probability. What is the likelihood that the thing I'm worrying about, the thing that you're worrying about is going to happen? Because the probability can be all over the map. The probability that I'm going to be late for my appointment, it might be 50 -50. Not you, but me.
Erik + Emily Orton (09:36.646)
Oh, sorry. Did I look at you when I said that? The probability that Eric will be late is very low, but the probability that I will be late is about 50 -50, unless I'm really being aware of it. Sorry, I was not trying to throw shade. But you know, or you might say, what's the probability that we will go broke because of whatever situation we're in?
And you might be able to say, you you're going to know this, you're going to know the answer better than we will, but you might say, well, the, the probability is actually 85 % say, okay, all right. If the probability is 85%, then, then you get, you can deal with that, but then you're acknowledging the, the probability question is a neutral one. It might be very probable or it might be very improbable. And I would say that most often our worries are improbable.
in reality, but in our brains, when we don't stop to think about it, we give them a very high probability and that's what causes the concern and the anxiety. Right. The fact that I thought about it means it's probably going to happen. This is really important when we talk about parenting adult kids, because we tend to see little hints of things that are happening in their life or choices they're making. And then we suddenly worry that...
things are gonna play out, like what are the chances that my child is gonna be long -term with this person who I don't think is a good match for them or... You'll forecast decades into the future. Right, yeah. And here it might be helpful to say, I think we've said it before, but sometimes when we are worrying about someone that we love, we feel that the act of worrying is an act of love, but an act of worrying is an act of distrust.
It's showing that we don't believe that they are capable of making decisions and good decisions. And so we tell ourselves we're showing love by worrying for them. And even better, we are going to bestow upon them our excellent but unsolicited counsel. Concerns, yeah. Because we love them and because our intent is to show love, we expect they're gonna receive it in the best way possible.
Erik + Emily Orton (11:56.902)
And none of those things are true. So we can't tell ourselves that. Worry is not love. Unsolicited advice is rarely welcome and so rarely heeded. Or therefore helpful. Yeah, but what does make the kids feel loved is when we say like, hey, you're going to figure this out. You're making your own choices. So number one is if you're worrying, practice naming it. Two, if you're worrying, try to...
Estimate somehow the probability of the thing you're worried about actually happening or coming to pass. Mm -hmm Worry is not love worries not love. Okay, the third one is worst -case scenario Let's say the probability of your situation if the the situation that you're worried about is very high that it will happen Take it all the way there make it a hundred percent in your mind. Okay, let's assume that it does happen. Let's assume that
the earthquake that I'm really worried about does happen and it demolishes our home and everyone in my family dies except me and I'm maimed, whatever, like what is the actual worst case scenario and go there 100 % and just like face it and be in it and then say, okay, if the earthquake happens and our home is demolished and everyone in our family is killed and I'm maimed, then what do I do?
That escalated really quickly. Right? Yeah. That's how worry works. Yeah, it grows fast. Because then you say, all right, what would I do? And am I okay with that? And you can, and then you start, you can work back from, okay, if that's the worst case scenario, and what's the probability of that happening? Then you start to work backwards and say, well, you know, okay, like maybe there is an earthquake and our house is demolished, but, and everyone dies, but I'm not maimed. What if...
earthquake, house demolished and not everybody dies. And nobody dies. Or nobody dies. Because we're not in our house. What if there is an earthquake in our home, it's not demolished but it's just damaged. And then you can start to work back to perhaps more likely scenarios but once you go all the way to the worst case as 100 % and you start to think through, okay, if that happened then what would I do? Then you just improve upon it. Am I kind of saying Yeah, it's a very dramatic explanation of it. So I might say,
Erik + Emily Orton (14:18.182)
become aware that you're worrying, name it as worrying, say what is the worst case scenario, and then maybe go to the probability of that happening and then saying like, and what could I do to lessen the probability and to lessen the severity, right? Like that sequence might be most helpful. Can I come clean about something on this topic? Uh -oh. So, cause sometimes you do this with me. I go worst case. And I'm like,
She's such a doomsday. I know, and I'm literally using strategies to overcome worry. And I'm just saying that oftentimes I'm like, why do you gotta be such a downer? And if I was emotionally more mature, I might be like, oh, she's trying to deal with worry about a situation that feels scary. And she's saying, she's doing this practice of going to worst case scenario instead of saying, I'm like.
why does she have to like look for the worst in every situation? And so anyway, which you know, anytime it's always in every that that's an exaggeration because I definitely do not do that. But yes, I'm exaggerating. That's true. I am. I am exaggerating. But yeah, when when I feel that fear rise up, I I go into these strategies of, OK, what is the worst case scenario? How would I handle that? How likely is that?
how could I improve upon my chances of it not being the worst case scenario and then build up the ladder from there. And as we always talk about on this podcast, what could go right, you know, that's gonna be another side of worry is filling in the entire picture of listing all of the things that could potentially go right. Which is surprisingly hard to do.
Well, you get better at it with practice. When you first start doing it, it's very hard to think of like, oh, well, you know, that could work out and that could lead to that and that could lead to that. Which is exactly what we do when we worry. That's just going in a negative direction. It's taking that same power of your imagination to visualize outcomes and like turning it to the good side.
Erik + Emily Orton (16:28.902)
Like the force. Maybe. We're just, I, you know, I always hear that as we're wired for survival, we think about what could go wrong. But when you want to rewire for thriving, then you want to think about what could go right. I think it's survival. Survival. Maybe. I actually want to share something with you because we've been talking about natural disasters or relationship issues and there's just, I mean, anything that's happening in your life, you could choose to worry about it.
And you may do. But especially when it comes to trying something new or expanding beyond the current skill set or experience that you have, like growing into something more or doing something creative, this can really, fear can really hold us in place. And so,
I wanted to share with you this letter from author Liz Gilbert, and she writes this in her book, which I love, called Big Magic. And it's basically a book about...
allowing ourselves to be creative, right? And so she says, fear always comes up in the process. And so she wrote this letter to fear and you can do this strategy as well. It's not in the Dale Carnegie book, but you can try this. It's a great exercise. I've done it before. Dearest fear, creativity and I are about to go on a road trip together. And I understand you'll be joining us because you always do. I do acknowledge that you believe you have an important job to do in my life and that your take,
and that you take your job seriously. Apparently your job is to induce complete panic whenever I'm about to do anything interesting. And may I say, you are superb at your job. So by all means, keep doing your job if you feel you must. But I will also be doing my job on this road trip, which is to work hard and stay focused. And creativity will be doing its job, which is to remain stimulating and inspiring. There's plenty of room in this vehicle for all of us, so make yourself at home, but understand this.
Erik + Emily Orton (18:37.222)
Creativity and I are the only ones who will be making any decisions along the way. I recognize and respect that you're part of this family and I will never exclude you from our activities, but still your suggestions will never be followed. You're allowed to have a seat and you're allowed to have a voice, but you are not allowed to have a vote. You're not allowed to touch the roadmaps. You're not allowed to suggest detours. You're not allowed to fiddle with the temperature. Dude, you're not even allowed to touch the radio.
But above all else, my dear old familiar friend, you are absolutely forbidden to drive. So what I love to do with all our different strategies around fear, around worry, which is kind of the low grade version of what grows up into fear, is to just turn it down. I never expect that it's going to go completely away, but when little worries pop up,
I think they grow fast like weeds, so I always talk about it as like weeding the worry garden. This is number four. Yeah, worries are always coming up, but just weed them while they're small. They're so much easier to get out if you just deal with them every day and whether that's acknowledging them or maybe you have a counter message you like to give yourself, like a mantra about what your goals are and what you're capable of and how you...
See yourself in your true light outside of what these worries cropping up are, are trying to pull you off path or off your purpose. Or some other approach that works for you, journaling them all out. Like there's so many ways to handle worries, but these are ones that we have found that have been really helpful for us. And...
That is why we really believe that worry is optional. Oh, Eric's pointing to another one. We had five. Oh, we have five. Sorry. Weeding the worry garden is number four. Four. Yeah, so one way I do that is by like writing in my journal. Yeah, we walk and talk every day and that gives us a chance to sometimes pull those weeds. And then yeah, journaling, I found that to be very, very helpful as well. All right, so Eric's gonna tell number five.
Erik + Emily Orton (21:01.286)
Hey, before we get to five, you want to talk about sailing real quick and then we'll close with five. Well, if you want to come sailing in 2024, we are offering a bunch of trips. You might you might be worried about how it will go. Yeah, you might be worried about how it will be getting on a call with Eric and talking to him about what sailing is, if he's going to be pushy. I'd be worried about how much it's going to cost or am I going to get seasick or will I like the people on the boat? Will it be my favorite?
eat the food that I like. Well, I've never been, you might worry that you've never been snorkeling and what else could you worry about for something like this? You worry about like, oh, how am I gonna feel in my swimsuit? What should I pack? Like nobody in my family has ever gone on a sailboat before or I've never left the country. I don't have a passport. There could be so many things that you could worry about and it's...
very exciting to get your first passport. And...
All of those fears are fears that people have overcome to have a wonderful time on these sailing trips. And any of those questions you have, Eric can answer them. He can show you pictures. He can tell you stories about people who felt the same way and how it worked out for them. And don't worry if it's not a match, you don't have to go. Yeah, there's no pressure. The most fun thing is when we find the match of someone who's like, this is exactly what I was looking for. I really wanted a chance to try on sailing, but without all the commitment of...
lessons or like buying my own boat. I just, I think I'm going to like it, but I want to, I want to try it out. And I don't want someone to be like, they just don't want to be a guest. And someone's like catering to me the whole time. Like I want to be part of the team and be hands on. And so if, if it's exactly the thing for you, you'll know. Yeah. We're happy to answer any of your questions. Don't be afraid. Okay. So the last one is, uh, and this is definitely, you can find this in
Erik + Emily Orton (23:05.254)
Dale Carnegie's book, How to Stop Worrying and Start Living. And he talks about, I'm calling it decision delay, he probably calls it something else, but it's the idea that oftentimes we worry about a decision that we have to make and we worry about it long before we have all the information, before we have the facts. And let's be honest, we almost never have all the facts that we want or all the information, but he asks this question, he's like, do you have to make a decision right now? And if the answer is no, then say okay.
I'm going to get more information between now and when I do have to make a decision. In the meantime, I'm not going to worry about it. I'm going to just focus on getting more information. And once I have more information, then I will make a decision, but I'm not going to worry about it until then. And so just saying, if the decision that you have to make is in the future, then don't worry about it. Just focus on getting information. I love that. I feel like we saw this happen over and over again in the year that our family of seven lived.
you know, bootstrapped a year living on a sailboat. And the way that I saw this happen over and over again is as we would go to new islands, we were always going somewhere we had never been before. We trusted it was there because we saw it on a map, but we didn't know where we were going to buy groceries, what the store was going to be called, like what food they would have, what, you know, where we would find a place to do our laundry or what the, you know, the...
anchoring situations were going to look like, like there were just, we knew we were just going to like head towards this island. And as we would get closer and closer, the information would fill in, right? Like we would start to see the island emerge over the horizon. We would start to see, we'd see the trees and then we'd see the sand. And then as we got closer, we'd see, okay, that's kind of the area where we're probably going to find a good anchorage. And then we would do like a little scouting trip once we were anchored and we'd
just kind of walk through the town and see what was there and like what services and vendors they had that we might need. And then we'd come back and make a plan, you know, come back to the boat and make a plan. And then we'd go in, you know, ready to make some decisions or make some purchases. And like, we didn't have to know this 80 miles ago. We needed to know it once we arrived. And that is precisely when the information became available and that's when we made decisions. And so,
Erik + Emily Orton (25:32.742)
Prior to that, I would worry like the whole island chain in advance. Like I wanted to control all the variables and know every single thing that was gonna happen. And as we did this over and over again, we had the experience that we always got the information before we had to make the decision. We just didn't have it the day before we needed to make the decision or three weeks before we needed to make the decision. We had it when we needed to make the decision. And that allowed me to just...
calm down, stop worrying. And this is, it's just one kind of confidence is to just be able to be calm and say, you know, that information is going to emerge as I get closer to the decision time. And I'll add two things. It's often impossible to get the information that you need and want sooner, that you have to be closer, both in time and distance, physical distance to get the information. And...
And also just that by trying to get it often makes the situation worse. By trying to get more information before it's the right time actually often overcomplicates it and creates multiple variables that are just confusing. And so... Do you have an example of that? I'm not sure what you're talking about. For example, trying to... I'll use a sailing example, like, you know, saying I want to... Like, I want to know...
what the price of gas is on the island that we're going to because I'm just curious. I'm calculating, you know, for the boat requires many, many gallons of gas. And then I end up spinning myself in circles trying to find the price of gas on a remote island that is not connected to the internet at all. And I end up just spinning myself into a deeper hole by trying to get it earlier instead of just saying, when I get there,
Hopefully they have gas and what I can control is making sure that I have sufficient funds for whatever the price might be. But trying to get the information earlier is exponentially harder than getting it at the right time. Yeah. So I think that is a great point. And some of that really detailed information, you know, it varies from day to day. So you're not going to know until it's time to make the decision.
Erik + Emily Orton (27:56.102)
In other cases, it's great to look in advance and see what the possibilities are and really like set your vision for what might be coming. But some of those things that you just can't know until you get there. And like Eric said.
you'll have that information when it's time to make that decision. So, should we go through the five? Yeah, I'll just do these five and then you can wrap this up. So, if you're worrying, try being aware of it and naming it. Just say, I am worrying. Two, calculate the probability of the thing you're worrying about actually happening. Three, go all in. Go to the worst case scenario, make it 100 % and then figure out what you would do in that situation and then try to improve upon it. Four,
Pull the weeds a little bit every day. Deal with worry when they're small. Five, decision delay. Don't worry about a decision if you don't have to make it yet. Just focus on getting more information. And the bonus one is, worry is not love. Worry is not love. Well, and what we always say here, because we do think worry is what gets in the way of us, taking the action, getting out of our comfort zone, expanding and becoming who we're really meant to be and contributing.
in the ways we're meant to contribute and inspiring those around us to like when we take the action to step out of our comfort zone and be brave, we are always inspiring somebody else and giving them permission to do that as well. So that's why we make this podcast. And that's why we always end by asking What Could Go Right?
