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Emily
We are talking about getting vulnerable this Valentine's.
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Erik
Vulnerable, Vulnerable.
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Emily
Valentine's Day. Welcome to the What Could Go Right? podcast where we talk about how to thrive as a person, a partner and a parent. And we want to help you make the most of your midlife. My name is Emily Orton and.
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Erik
I am Erik Orton.
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Emily
And welcome to our podcast.
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Erik
Welcome, welcome. So vulnerable Valentine's Day. Actually, before we get into vulnerability, I want to say a few things.
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Emily
Just got to be open about this.
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Erik
We just got to be. We've got to come clean with you. We want to send cinnamon rolls to your house. That's the honest truth. February 8th is Fezywig day.
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Emily
And it's a family holiday that we celebrate. The first day we moved aboard a sailboat with our five kids. It was a four year journey getting to that point, and it was super scary, but we stuck with it and spent a year on a sailboat.
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Erik
Yeah. So, yeah. And so we we love to.
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Emily
We honor the day with cinnamon rolls.
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Erik
We honor the day with cinnamon rolls. And so what we do is we loved we figured out something that really worked for us to help things happen that we thought were previously impossible and we coach on that.
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Emily
We're coaching seven and seven part framework that we reverse engineered from going through multiple impossible dreams. Personally, and we just have so much fun helping other people discover what's possible for them as well.
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Erik
And and so the discovery I'm going to connect Discovery call in cinnamon rolls here. So we do discovery calls because we want to give you we want you to give it a try. We want to help you. Just start down this road of pursuing something that you think currently is impossible but can actually come come to be in your life.
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Erik
And so that's why we do discovery calls so that you can discover what's possible in your life and in honor of Fezywig day, the first 10 people that sign up for a discovery call, we will send cinnamon rolls directly to your door so that you can celebrate this family holiday with us.
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Emily
So, yeah, cinnamon rolls directly to your door. First, ten people to sign up in the continental U.S. (Ta dah.) We're going to make that happen.
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Erik
Back to vulnerable Valentine's Day. Why do we want to talk about vulnerability, Emily?
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Emily
Well, here's the thing. As we coach different people, you know, nobody wants to really admit that the reason they are pursuing their dreams is because they have, you know, some kind of fear obstacle or there's a concern or there's some kind of story that they're telling themself about themself. Some of that is subconscious and some of it is protective.
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Emily
But we've seen that, you know, today we kind of want to focus on thriving as a as a partner, whether you're in a marriage or you're in some other partnership that you're going through life together and sometimes those that we are closest with, we have trouble revealing our fears or our feeling of embarrassment or shame if we haven't been able to make life turn out the way that we hoped it would.
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Emily
And that can really inhibit us from being honest with each other and really finding out what is most important to us and therefore what kind of dreams we want to strive for, what kind of goals we want to set. We we aren't totally honest with ourselves, and that makes it hard to be honest with the people that we're trying to do life with.
00:03:51:00 - 00:04:29:06
Emily
But what we've discovered and this happens sometimes when we're coaching, we can provide this sort of encouraging, I won't say neutral because we are like on your side, middle ground where people can feel more comfortable actually saying, Here's what's holding me back, here's how I feel about it. And help them move forward into getting past or over or through the obstacles that are between them and saying truly what they would actually be excited about in life.
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Erik
Is it okay if I share an example? I think one of the things one of the things that we hear is where I observe, I will say one spouse or on a coaching call and one spouse says something out loud and the other spouses. I never knew you felt that way. Or or they say they say something and the other spouse says, that's not true.
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Erik
You said you think they're like, Well, actually that's sort of a variation on what I actually like. There's there's the how can I say this? Because we always want to respect confidentiality, but it's like, you know, like that's one version of it. But when I'm really being honest with myself, there's this other version.
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Emily
So I think we can we can share this example because this comes up actually quite a bit where someone will say, My spouse doesn't have any dreams or my spouse isn't adventurous. I can't even count. Kind of three times we hear one spouse saying the other spouse.
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Erik
They project something onto that person.
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Emily
Or that's what they believe about their spouse. And then if you actually get in the same room or on the same zoom call with the other spouse, you find out, no, they actually do have dreams and there is a sense of adventure and there are things they would love to look forward to in life, but they feel held back by some other circumstance.
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Emily
And and it could be any number of circumstances, whether it's an obligation to a sick family member or what they believe, you know, a child might need to have stability or what they believe about their money situation like this comes up over and over again. And they say, like, I don't feel like I can actually have a dream until we get through X, Y, Z obstacle.
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Emily
So I have them, but I'm unwilling to unlock that door right now. And that is a whole different question. That's a whole different situation than not having goals and ambitions and and things that you want to do with your life. Then feeling like I'm incapable of addressing those dreams because I'm so burdened by these other situations. So what is what we're talking about is telling the truth about those things you're saying.
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Emily
Like, I actually have dreams and I feel a little bit afraid that I'll never get to them because I'm on the front side of this obstacle, and I'm not sure when I'll get to the back side of it. But I don't believe right now that I can dream in this position. We would disagree. Yeah, the dream can actually be really helpful, but you can't get to the dream if you're if you're not being honest about the obstacle.
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Erik
Well, we wrote down four different things that are kind of how you can get to those kinds of conversations and have them go well.
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Emily
And sure.
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Erik
We go through.
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Emily
Those. Yeah, because we would really love for you to be able to create a situation where you can be honest and in a way that will bring your relationship closer together and also make it more likely for you to achieve your your goals. And that will just make life more fun. You'll be more hopeful. Your relationship tips can improve.
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Emily
And so, yeah, we want to talk about a few ways that you can facilitate and nurture and support a vulnerable Valentine's. You don't have to do it on Valentine's Day. It's just deliberative.
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Erik
But we're just trying to be catchy.
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Emily
Yeah, but that you can really support having those kind of conversations over and over again throughout your life.
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Erik
So first of all, it's sometimes it's just logistically getting into these conversations. Is the obstacle finding the right time in the right place? You know, you hear it in the movies all the time. I just didn't want to bring it up.
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Emily
Or it wasn't a good time. Wasn't I found a good time to bring it up?
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Erik
That and I had no choice. I had.
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Emily
No choice. Also not true.
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Erik
So one of the things that we've learned to do is that when it's when you're looking to have a vulnerable conversation, it's really hard to find the right time. And one strategy to get over this is to say, is to set a time and say, I'd like to talk with you about something specific. Could we do it at this time?
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Erik
And you were able to pick a time and a place to do it where you're not going to worry about being interrupted by the kids or phone calls or, you know, you're not going to do in a high traffic part of the house, but you say sometimes you go away like, let's just go for a drive or let's go for a walk so that you can have privacy and be able to do that.
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Erik
And so one strategy is just to set a time and I would say a place.
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Emily
Yeah, calendar a time and place and make it ample.
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Erik
Yeah. And yeah and try and keep it free of pressures on the back side so that if it, if it does go along that's okay. You're not like man we got to really get to the point here.
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Emily
Yeah. And I also love that if you have that time set up and you have a time and a place, you could also let the other person know the theme or you could let them know, you know, it's nothing bad, but I just really want to have a chance to kind of share my dreams with you, give them some kind of indication that this conversation is really important to you and it's going to be a little vulnerable and you hope it will bring you closer together.
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Erik
Yeah, right. You don't want to leave it with an ominous tone like, Hey, let's talk together in five days about something really serious. And then they spend the whole week worrying.
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Emily
You know, if you do want to talk about something serious, that's is also a good strategy for that.
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Erik
But but yeah, you can say it's like I think it's going to be a good conversation, but I just want to make sure we have some time around it.
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Emily
Exactly.
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Erik
Which is actually brings me to my second point, which is set the tone and I think you were saying you can do some of that early on, but when you actually get into the conversation, it's okay to say a few things that will lay the groundwork and I think we've done this in our marriage and I've also done it.
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Erik
It comes up a lot in the creative space, like when we're working on a story or a song or, you know, anything that's kind of still a work in progress. And sometimes I'll give it to you. Like I was running some ideas past you yesterday. I said, This is I'm going to run some ideas past you and all I want is encouragement.
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Emily
So I don't want you to poke any holes in this. I just want to hear about the things that you love about it.
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Erik
Yeah, I'm going to. I'm going to run some half baked ideas past you. And please don't try and poke holes in them because they're not ready for that.
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Emily
Yeah, it's not the stage for that.
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Erik
And you and our daughter sat there and listened and we're just like, you know, and you guys nailed it. You guys were were great.
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Emily
You gave us some clues as to what kind of feedback was feedback was actually going to be helpful.
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Erik
And sometimes and I'm using sort of creative examples, but these also apply to whatever topic you want to discuss. Like I'll say, here's a chapter of a book and I'll be like, You know, I just need you to read this for typos, Like only look for glaring, like, stupid, like, I don't want to send this out and look stupid, but I don't want to change any of the content.
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Erik
Or I could say, you know, read this, and all I want to know is, like, is is the story working? Is the theme landing or, you know, and I don't really care about typos at all. I'm just trying to get to the heart of it on the page.
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Emily
And in a conversation, you might say something like you said, this is a half baked idea or these feelings are really tender to me and I just want to trust you with them. And I. I don't need you to, I don't know, give it any sort of adjustments or modifications to what I'm sharing. I just you're the person I love best in all the world, and I want to trust this with you, But I.
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Emily
I'm not ready to make any changes to how I'm feeling. I just want to share how I'm feeling. And so I really need you to just, like, listen to me and be there for me. Or you might say, I want to hear what you love about it. Or maybe it's robust enough that you're ready to hear more like this.
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Emily
I've been thinking about this and I have it all sorted out, and I'd love to know your thoughts and how you think we can. This fits into your hopes for the future and how we might be able to work together.
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Erik
So yeah, again, setting the tone.
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Emily
Setting the setting.
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Erik
The tone so that the person knows how to give you the best chance at getting it right. And I think actually ideas popped in my head when we were newly married and I came home and you put a sign on the door. do you remember this?
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Emily
I live this might be kind of cliche, but we were newly married and so I don't know, I guess I just suddenly felt like very sophisticated. And so I got my haircut. Is this what you're talking about?
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Erik
And you put it, you just said, Here's what I want you to say.
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Emily
I got my hair cut really short like a Princess Diana haircut. And I thought I was very sophisticated. But I was also a little nervous how Eric would respond because I didn't mention it to him. And so I we had a little clipboard outside our front door, and I wrote a script. I wrote a script for him so he would know exactly what to say.
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Emily
And I kind of walked him through his usual comments as he comes in, like, I saw the price of gas was this and I did such and such today and then opens the door, sees, you know, his wife and says all of these complimentary things about her new haircut. So I actually just told him exactly what to say.
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Emily
I got exactly the response that I was hoping for. And he didn't get into any dangerous territory of being surprised or having a comment that maybe came to mind without going through a filter.
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Erik
First, I got an A-plus.
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Emily
A-plus in his response to that situation. So that was actually really helpful. So we could talk more about it later. But my initial fears were alleviated that he was like, You look amazing.
00:14:49:14 - 00:15:12:11
Erik
Okay, so number one, set a time and a place to set the tone, whether it's when you when you make the appointment or in the moment like and you starting the conversation and just to loop back you were talking about one example might be this is very typical Mars and Venus like a woman might say, I just want you to hear what I'm going to say.
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Erik
I don't want you to offer any solutions or ideas. I just want to be heard. That's sort of the stereotypical Martian. Yeah.
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Emily
And I think sometimes a man might want to be able to say that, too.
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Erik
I think so, too. And, you know, and the man might say, I actually all I want is for you to help me come up with ideas.
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Emily
And because all I want is for you to tell me how great the ideas I already have.
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Erik
Or that's my favorite. That is my favorite conversation. I'm going to come up with a bunch of ideas and you're going to tell me which how you like them all. Yeah. Okay. Anyway, so the third one is and I'm I don't do this often, but when I do it really helps me when I'm feeling like I've got vulnerable feelings or things that I don't really have sorted out yet.
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Erik
I write a letter, I write a note and, you know, I'll let's just say it's you and me. I write out whatever it is that I'm trying to figure out. And I say, Hey, can you read this? And then let's talk about it later on. Like, I don't want like, don't read it. And then I'm like, like process it.
00:16:13:12 - 00:16:31:13
Erik
And it does a couple of things. First of all, it gives me a chance to put my thoughts together in a in a time and in a way where I feel like I can concentrate and I can revise and I can say, No, that's not how I want to say it. And I can have three, four, seven tries saying it right.
00:16:31:15 - 00:16:54:15
Erik
And I can also maybe be a little braver than I would be to put something out on paper. Yes, that's I think that's it that I wouldn't be able to just do on the fly in a in a real time conversation. And I think we've both on this, but then say, you know, whether it's an email or maybe don't maybe avoid text texting, I feel like it's for some reason that just feels a little.
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Emily
Bit too immediate.
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Erik
Volatile. Yeah, it's too immediate. You know, maybe maybe you don't have to go so far as printing it out and putting it in an envelope. But you could. You could. Yeah, but just say, Hey, here's something that I'd love for you to think about and let's talk about it. And it gives you a chance because, you know, it gives you a chance to collect your thoughts.
00:17:12:09 - 00:17:19:22
Erik
Say it in a way that your best crack at it, saying it accurately and then having the vulnerable conversation together.
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Emily
And if you're married to someone like me who has ideas really quickly and forms a quick response or loves to interrupt.
00:17:31:20 - 00:17:32:18
Erik
I don't know what you're talking about.
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Emily
Then this can be especially helpful because in the letter that you write, you're not going to get interrupted, you're not going to get thrown off course, you're not going to go on a tangent. You're going to be able to carry your very important line of ideas all the way through to their conclusion. And then the other person, me in this case, has a chance to sit with the entire idea and ruminate on it and show a little respect for it, to give it some time to process it and then come together at an appointed time and place to be able to actually talk about what's so important to you.
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Emily
That's been truly helpful to know, he's really been thinking about this. And this is a well considered good, you know, what would you call it? Just like an explanation of what's in your mind and heart or what you're trying to do in any given area. Then I could take it seriously and I can show the respect and and come with my my best ideas and the most empathy and and point.
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Erik
And I think sometimes writing it out, actually it then you don't need is you need you don't need to set an appointment as much because you feel like, okay, I'm confident enough to just have this conversation whenever because most of it's out there, we don't have to sort of like create a safe space for it. So either way can go.
00:19:12:17 - 00:19:14:04
Erik
But but writing it down.
00:19:14:04 - 00:19:37:00
Emily
Okay, so what are the ways that we want you to thrive as a partner when your relationship with your spouse or the person you're doing life with is thriving, then you just you show up better in all areas of your life. It's better for you, it's better for them, and it's better for your kids, your community. You're just you're more present and you're more at your best.
00:19:37:00 - 00:19:45:02
Emily
So what are the four ways that we can have these honest, vulnerable conversations that will draw closer to our loved one and help us be our best self?
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Erik
Or we're going to come to the fourth one here in a second. But to recap, set a time and perhaps a place, set the tone possibly when you set the time in place, but also at the beginning of the conversation. Third is write a letter in advance and maybe you write letters like each of you does one, but that's one way.
00:20:05:00 - 00:20:36:14
Erik
And then the last is actually not a strategy but an outcome. And that is that you were talking earlier about being on the front side of an obstacle and how. So what we found is that when we're able to be vulnerable with each other as husband and wife and we're able to be candid about things that we're struggling with or things that we're worried about or share things that feel embarrassing or fragile, that that actually brings us together, first of all.
00:20:36:16 - 00:21:07:09
Erik
And it puts us in a place in a mindset where our trust is so much deeper and that the vulnerability leads to trust. And that trust leads to the other side of the obstacle you're able to Then, whereas before you might have been feeling stuck or trapped or frustrated or discouraged, you're in a much more positive place just by having had that conversation and you're open to things that are good and hopeful and you're you're more open to the possible.
00:21:07:11 - 00:21:27:06
Erik
And so one of the outcomes of vulnerable conversations is, I think, an increase in optimism and it leads to dreaming. That's really where it leads to dreaming. And you're able to think bigger as a as a person and a partner. Well, you know, individually and together and I don't know. Is that true to you?
00:21:27:09 - 00:21:57:15
Emily
That rings true to me. And it really makes me think of gratitude and appreciation. And when you have a conversation like that, the correct response is always, Thank you so much for trusting me with this hour. Thank you so much for receiving this. That's a great with respect and response and and you want to get into that place where you're on the same side of the table and it's you and I against the world again.
00:21:57:15 - 00:22:22:03
Emily
Like together we can combine our forces and you make great things happen. We can have peace in our relationship and we can handle the the different challenges and struggles that are either coming our way or that we're choosing to take on, and that that is hopeful. But sharing that appreciation and saying like, wow, I'm so I'm so impressed.
00:22:22:05 - 00:22:32:20
Emily
I'm so grateful. I'm so happy that we get to go through life together. There's nobody I'd rather tackle this with than you. I think that's the outcome you want to get to.
00:22:32:21 - 00:22:57:23
Erik
I think you said something really important that I just want to emphasize, which is a great response. Whenever after somebody is done sharing their heart with you and being vulnerable, say thank you for trusting me with that. You can't go wrong and then be trustworthy. Don't ever abuse that vulnerability. So I just think that's a great a great conversation line that I know that I've been the beneficiary of.
00:22:57:23 - 00:23:05:18
Erik
And I think it's been good for both of us. Anything else that we should say about vulnerable Valentines.
00:23:05:20 - 00:23:33:12
Emily
Well we're, we're just happy to be part of this journey. We aren't doing this perfectly, but we keep coming back and trying again and again. We also are seeking to make the most of midlife to thrive as a person, individually, as partners in our, in our marriage and as parents of our four adult kids and one teenager. And so we're right there with you.
00:23:33:12 - 00:23:47:22
Emily
And we hope that if you found something useful or valuable today that you will give it a try at home. Let us know how it goes, Share it with friends or loved ones you think might find a benefit here. And we'll just remind you about the cinnamon rolls and the sailing.
00:23:48:04 - 00:24:02:21
Erik
Cinnamon rolls and sailing. Go to www.theawesomefactory.nyc/discovery to sign up for a discovery call in the first ten in the continental U.S. that sign up gets cinnamon rolls straight to your door in honor of Fezywig day.
00:24:02:21 - 00:24:05:09
Emily
And you get a great conversation with.
00:24:05:11 - 00:24:06:10
Erik
and there's that.
00:24:06:10 - 00:24:10:20
Emily
Erik Orton. You know that if you're tired of listening to us, let us listen to you.
00:24:10:22 - 00:24:32:20
Erik
Love, and come sailing with us. It's kind of, man, we do these fun trips, go to our website /sailing 2024, get some of the details there and talk about, you know, whether this might be a good fit. And if so, it's great to do as a couple. You can come with other family members or, you know, put together a whole group and come as friends, whatever.
00:24:32:20 - 00:24:38:19
Erik
We love to do it, and it ends up being a pretty transformative and pretty fun experience.
00:24:38:21 - 00:24:45:12
Emily
Yeah. So we always love to end with the question what could go right?
00:24:45:14 - 00:24:46:07
Erik
Thanks for listening.
